A new concept from us, we thought we would start releasing some shorter podcasts centred around some of the courses we play on our travels. Here is the first one, from our recent visit to the quirky, short, and absurdly difficult Painswick in Gloucestershire. This place is F-U-N!
hello and welcome back to a new series
or a new semi-series or a new sub series
of the cookie jar golf podcast I’ll just
call it a different flavor it just
basically it’s gonna be
the same thing as the cookie jar golf
podcast but it’s going to be little
micro pods the cookie crumbs some would
say I am Tom Mills and today I’m only
joined by Sam Williams greetings Thomas
hello Sam you’re right yeah good mate so
um just introducing this concept I guess
we
constantly talk about some of the golf
courses we play but feel like we’re
shoehorning it into pods so doing a few
little micro pods talking about some of
the courses we’ve played on our travels
I thought would be quite interesting
um and on Monday I managed to drag you
up to Payne’s work now Monday is a very
arbitrary term when you listen to this
podcast at any point in time in the
future so a few days ago we played
Payne’s work which I was convinced was
mention Hampton for like literally four
hours I was convinced we were going to
mention Hamilton are they even close to
each other they’re a gloucestershire
courses all very popular with the kind
of work Golf Course architecture Brigade
um but I’d seen so many pictures of
Payne’s week are super excited to go and
see it obviously you know we have a
massive fondness don’t we for cleave but
um I think also should bit of context
here Monday the 19th of July was a
cripplingly hot day in Britain so
the idea that we could sit in a car for
50 minutes with air conditioning was
um holiday I’ll show up for that
um so yeah I guess kind of maybe just
talk and talk a little about Payne’s
work and experiences going into that
with 17 pound 50 Green fee I think I’d
done a little bit more due diligence
than you what were you consider I didn’t
know where we were going yeah I think
you’ve done a little bit more than me
um well friend of the Pod Simon Haynes
um
world-renowned
nerd uh it’s a world-renowned nerd I’d
say
um if you want picked black and white
pictures of bunkers he’s your guy yeah
he’s um he’s a full-on golf nors like
the rest of us and he like Raves about
paineswick so it was on our bucket it
was on a hit list for a while wasn’t it
so we got a warm evening and went down
there um
I suppose we should learn a little bit
about the backgrounds of paineswick I
suppose I mean I’m not the most well
versed person about Payne’s work but I’m
not going to pretend to have done loads
of loads of research but I do know it
was
um really accredited to David Brown so
David famous from our musselburgh film
was pulled off a roof
um and won the Open Championship haven’t
been given a bath and put into a fresh
suit and I know he was also working as a
professional down at Cleve Hill so given
the the proximity of the two courses the
fact they kind of all occupy different
parts of the Cotswold escarpment
um yeah he’s kind of accredited with
with the design
I didn’t know an awful lot more about
that I knew that it was a relatively
short course
um driving down I think we had a little
look at the scorecard 4 800 yards past
67 to steal the line from from our
Cullen film one could be forgiven for
thinking 59 watches on the cards well I
can tell you it’s absolutely not 89
watch might be on the cards but not 59
watch it was a a blisteringly difficult
golf course what was the takeaway what
was your thoughts going into it like
because you know what coming away from
it what were the kind of there are some
huge similarities to Cleve and there are
some enormous differences to cleave
so
I mean that whole stretch of golf up
there is still so raw like it’s not in
any way shape or form USGA it’s it’s not
as raw as cleave it’s not maintained by
sheep it’s got proper green stuff and
it’s
it’s just still very raw and basic and
you go there and you think
you know you can imagine how golf was
um they’ve got the breathtaking views
around there I mean the views are
Sensational
um but you know if you build a course
now you you know I think someone would
say oh she put the clubhouse near the
top somewhere yeah but David Brown and
in all of his
his uh his knowledge starts the golf
course down at the bottom at the lowest
point you could possibly be so like for
six holes I mean getting up that hill is
it’s a great experience I mean it’s a
bit of a cardiac kill at the first I I
mean for me I kind of takeaways would be
really really small greens like tiny
really tiny greens I thought the flags
were huge when we were playing at them
and after a few I realized actually the
flag’s a normal size it was the greens
that were smaller
um just to add to that I mean the I
think that the signature you’d say is
the par 36
glorious golf ball incredible golfer
glorious golf hole it’s like 210 and we
played sort of downhill it’s really
quite a tough little par three
um
it was eight yards wide
all this green
in the world and like if you miss left
which I did and I only missed by about
did not exist but that’s not why you’re
there you know it’s not you’re not there
for for all that it’s just like it is
so much fun but the greens are super
smart I agree with you on that they are
literally tiny but I think there’s a
there’s a lot to be said for that I
think
um
you know we you know we’ll talk a little
bit about around I’m sure at some point
but halfway through we managed to we we
kind of picked up ollie on our travels
and said look you know it’s obviously a
local golfer you know do you mind if we
join you you’re saying there’s like
someone someone understands Ollie was a
golfer who would I mean his T-shirt
represented everything that was going on
about click about Payne’s work because
the back sort of the spine of his
T-shirt was just drenched in sweat it
was so hot and I think he was about to
call it a day and he was kind of sort of
mosing around and and uh Sam got
chatting to him and he thankfully joined
us and for the last six Souls maybe yeah
yeah um just a local golfer you know
tell us about
yeah his journey in golf he started
pretty recently and all around top guy
teacher in the area and um you know 30
pound a month Subs just incredible but
it’s amazing you know and playing with
him was pretty neat but
you kind of get I I thought the land
forms of the course were pretty pretty
special I thought all of that stuff is
really memorable when you play it I
don’t think
it’s quite enjoyable the fact that
you’ve got all these funky slopes around
the green you’ve got to come up with all
these different short shots around them
you know you’re not going to hit 18
Greens in regulation around there now
kind of the reason I bought audio was
because he told us very quickly that
actually now they’ve got a second green
keeper so I think a guy used to maintain
the course on his own which if you’ve
played Payne’s work and if you haven’t
you must go and play it
the the land to go and reach different
parts of the course with any kind of
equipment would be an undertaking in
itself let alone if you were the only
green keeper so I think it’s incredible
and the fact they’re small greens is
brilliant because that’s exactly why you
can get stupidly cheap green fees really
because there’s not the same cost that
goes into to looking after it the ground
pretty
springy yeah it was it was proper Turf
wasn’t it I mean it was proper
it’s interesting because when we covered
um cleave you know they talk about it
being linksy and you know to many
degrees Payne’s books the same it’s this
sort of
chalky Turf it’s on that Cotswold Stone
it looks you know it’s not it drains
amazingly you can imagine it doesn’t get
wet in the in the winter at all and
it’s just to get away with one green
keeper is absolutely nuts and they’re
like the the how how far they’ve
progressed the course with the second
green keeper and it was in good
condition like and that’s I think that’s
where there’s a lot to be said for you
know just having good land as a starting
point I would say if you go to Payne’s
Rick I mean I almost wouldn’t bother
with a scorecard because the number
that’s on the scorecard is just so
unrepresentative to the number that you
and your playing Partners will get well
the first hole is what
220 yards
we’re driving down I’m thinking okay
could it could be an iron it could be a
fair we would have all right we’re gonna
we’re gonna get home here like this is
this is a nice easy start you’re playing
straight up an embankment to a blind
green and that’s okay and then you get
to the top and it’s like oh my God
there’s all these Ravines and yeah below
the greens it’s like that’s awesome like
it’s really cool
um but you know it’s a legitimate Par
Four it’s just very short it’s not an
easy golf hole the green is small if you
go past the pin you’ve got one of those
awkward little Legends so let’s talk
about this so I’d say you know we’re not
we’re not super well versed in
gloucestershire golf but there seems in
the two courses that we’ve played in
gloucestershire they’ve got
I saw a unique little feature that you
kind of I’ve only ever seen there really
where
the greens are obviously they’re all
built on Hills because it’s all very
hairy down there you’ve got the Cotswold
and they seem to have dug out a small
section of the hill to flatten the green
and then put that Earth on the other
side of the green to make it larger and
flatter so you get a drop onto the green
then it flats and then a drop off the
green but yeah you get that quite a lot
and it’s a really unique feature I think
I’ve not seen it anywhere and then you
go and play around the Cotswolds and
there’s quite a bit of it so you’ve
heard lots of it I would say it’s
without doubt one of the biggest
challenging but it’s a Terrain to get
through because you’re basically playing
off a ledge onto the green below or
chipping up from below a very steep
ledge there’s no bunkers there at all is
there no not the the iso it shows how
much you miss a bunker because I think
we were driving back as I was there a
bunker I don’t know I don’t think there
was a bunker I just thought it was a
ball Striker because I haven’t been
bunker I missed though having buns like
it just definitely didn’t need it I
think Clearfield probably uh has a
couple of them you know is is no
apologies for comparing the two because
they are I suppose
competing for the same audience in a way
they’re not far away from each other
it’s it’s relatively cheap green fees
it’s purely rugged golf
Cleve Hill put in a few bunkers that I
think happened by committee over time I
very much doubt they were there and in
the early days
um and I don’t think Payne’s Works any
any less for it I think in fact I think
the course was harder for not having
them because in the places they would
have put them you know you can Splash
out onto the green and all that but this
had lots of runoffs and and you found
yourself in tightly in my own areas and
it was a little bit trickier for not
having them I think what about what were
your favorite holes
I mean I’m always gonna have a
I’m always gonna have a rose tinted view
on the back six because I absolutely
took you the shreds on the back six but
um I mean they’re part of the signature
hold the sixth
pretty pretty good golfer pretty
spectacular golf all down the hill and
you can see the you know it’s almost
sort of 360 views uh degree views of the
whole of gloucestershire so that hole is
pretty impressive
um but then there’s two like super
sneaky short par threes 115 yards yeah
completely blind and up both are up 30
yards five and ten yeah yeah yeah but
Cole’s five and ten they go up you know
30 yards up in the air you can’t see
what’s going and you’re hitting sort of
gap wedge into no idea where you’re
hitting it and they’re quite but they’re
seriously good fun golf holes aren’t
they actually like gold so it’s not a
penal because the greens are bold yeah
yeah so it all feeds back down all
you’ve got to do is get it in the
vicinity and it kind of you won’t be far
away so that’s quite cool just asking
you whether you can get the ball near
yeah the par 3s are pretty cool I think
then you know I think there are some
good par fours I mean we can’t not talk
about the second there
the hottest golf hole in the history of
the world I genuinely know like we got
we’ve played the first I’m Sweating
Bullets after getting up that hill I’ve
made a nice little four chipped up
two-part thought okay we’re in the round
here got the first hole against Tom
and he stand on the second here it’s
like I think it was about 320 yards I
want to say maybe 340. 340 yeah stroke
three okay looks tough because I’m
looking at a hogsback fairway here I
can’t see anything past the stake but
the stake looks like it’s 230 down there
so you’re thinking
Fairway word just get it in play guess I
just need to add a touch of descriptions
it’s a hogsback fairway with a with a
you know like a marker in the middle
it’s OB left yeah damn death left I mean
well I think it is off the course I will
be left and right is just more Revenge
it’s Ravines and caverns and 30 40 foot
as well yeah crazy Steve carry on yeah
so then you get down there you’ve got to
play into a green obviously with a you
can kind of see the top part of the pin
behind it there’s a little lollipop
behind to kind of give you a kind of a
bit of an aim point on where to go if
you can’t see the top of the pin
um you then get a kind of this view of
the Ravine that then pinches all the way
into the front of the green doesn’t it
goes right across the Fairway gets
stupidly crazy narrow down the left the
tree line which becomes a red Hazard
because it drops off into another Gorge
becomes visible and then when you get
down to the green you realize it’s about
10 Paces long and it’s behind the back
front to back front to back
it’s genuinely one of the hardest and
most terrifying golf holes I’ve ever
played it is solid I mean fun I I I’ve
smoked a firewood up there and I’ve just
got like I’ve probably probably the best
T-shirt here all day and I’ve got 99 in
but when you’re looking at nine iron
where there’s red left red long
caves right short is the narrowest
Fairway in the world yeah it was a
fairly intimidating approach shot David
Brown was a sadist we’ve got to talk
about the match unfortunately
um but we can go through some more holes
first I think if he was playing
payneswick if I were to give anyone some
advice about Payne’s Wick
um
do not go there thinking you are any way
capable of bullying this golf course
hit the ball where you can see and I
think so often we were like okay well
it’s 260 down there so I can just knob a
drive down there but in reality you
could do six iron wedges and just didn’t
need anything more that I don’t think
because there’s two puff eyes that play
alongside I mean it’s a shared Fairway
but it’s really the same Fairway
you know you almost played down the
throat to the group in front of you as
they’re going back up nine
um those are the only long holes on the
course I would say neither are really
legitimate we played off the backs I
don’t think eight or nine is really
reachable in two it’s if it’s reachable
it’s not the play and the par fours are
all definitely reachable for most
golfers down the hill and then nine
comes back up but like you say the same
Fairway so they made us look stupid
didn’t it because you know there was a
couple of holes once you got through you
know one and then the mind-bendingly
difficult second you play two really
good par fours back to back you play you
know the third you’ve got kind of like
this huge Quarry Works off to the right
of you you play downhill the Green’s
just winking at you from the T Isn’t it
nice elevated teeth or something 280.
it’s like so I don’t know why as golfers
you have that little buzzer in your head
that goes I’ve got to go for it it’s in
range I cannot possibly lay up so we all
try and lump drivers down there the same
repeats itself on the 4 fourth which is
like 290 uphill so clearly not the play
both of those holes by the way so they
both are 280 290 both have got like you
say greens are just basically I like
placemats giving you the eye and going
like come on then and the left you’re
playing you’re playing towards this
green that if you go left of it kicks to
OB so it’s dead like and the whole
Fairway runs to OB and exactly the same
thing happens on the fourth in Reverse
you just go up to the right and you’re
playing towards that’s red staked but
you’re playing up towards red steaks and
you’ve got to hit basically the eye of a
needle or from 290 and we all I don’t
know why
yeah fully suckered Us in and you know
if the hole was longer we probably
wouldn’t have played those shots and I
think that’s why there’s a lot to be
said for it and it genuinely made us
look like morons for a few holes because
I think in the first 14 holes we were
pretty much you know we’re reloading on
about five holes I’d kind of arrogantly
got out the car and said probably gonna
need a couple of golf balls grab a fist
with a team eggs will be all good
and yeah I like playing it again I would
show an infinite amount more respect to
par around there I think
yeah I mean I’m going to put it out
there and say we both played it with too
much arrogance yeah I think like the
first you you would be very well we’ve
talked about this first 220 you would be
very well served to hit nayton up the
hill and just chip on but Ollie came out
with the statement didn’t he on his way
back he was like when it gets summery
and really hot and the ground gets burnt
out what did he what did he say
something or boys can’t get to the top
of the hill to the hit the ball up the
hill and he doesn’t greet to the top
which rolls back to their feet because
the Hill’s like about 140 160 yards to
ascend I think before you get anything
like being on level ground now I know
old boys that aren’t going to advance a
tee shot more than 140 yards uphill like
I can think of a handful of members at
Blackwell that I don’t think would get
off the First Tee in that instance yeah
if it was burnt out it’s insane
um speaking of teas you mentioned a
festival of teas probably the only
course in the world which is it’s kind
of like the Kryptonite to the Western
Birch yeah I mean RT pegs as our
customers and people who are proudly
Rocking Around The Fairways will attest
to they literally do not break I mean
the one I picked up the other week on
the fairways was a Blackwell was beaten
within an inch of its life but the shank
of the tea just clearly would not snap
these things were going through them
like math I didn’t even hit a shot just
put it in the ground it’s like gone I
don’t know whether that’s some sort of
like you know I’m assuming
sort of you know was thinking well ahead
of his years but
um yeah it was nuts absolutely nuts but
I think you know we talked a bit about
front nine there I think the be remiss
not to talk about
um you know some of that stuff as well
on the closing stretch which is just
really good fun isn’t it yeah I think
we’ve we need to address the elephants
in the room which was
um we picked up Ollie
um just before the 13th lovely lad 14th
lovely lad yeah and um he said well the
next hole’s a par three and when to walk
down to the to them the yellow T’s and
Sam goes no no no I’m not doing that
wing and perfect
I could see him walking down the hill
and I just went where’s the white solid
and he’s like oh yeah we’ve got this at
the back and I was like yeah so the wife
was at 250 but you we’ve been speaking
about this rather impressive elevation
uphill and obviously at some point
you’ve got to go downhill and that was
it was this hole so there’s 250 but it
was
so downhill it’s unbelievable so I take
um I take a four iron and it’s still
going over the green and it was a little
bit left but it’s still going over the
green by the time it went out our bounds
so Sam Hits a six iron to basically the
green yeah and it just woke it up just
at 250 yards six times as as banter but
um yeah I was I was so proud of myself
and I thought yeah great we’ve you know
he was a great guy I thought brilliant
we’ve got someone new we’ve met here
we’re going to play have six or seven
good golf holes with him and this guy
now immediately thinks I’m a ball
Striker I thought you know we are right
in the pound seats yeah Gary Cottrell
and then yeah as we kind of crept in
other neck I think it was the next hole
flush two irons into like you know about
eight feet just
sensibly five iron five iron
yeah and then you go on to is it the
14th then where you stand up again on
the elevated tee because it kind of
plays very similar to a traditional
links doesn’t it very much out and back
you know out and back again back to the
fact that you know in those days you
know it really was play out as long as
you want to go and then turn for home
when you’re ready rather than needing to
have different loops and iron and
you know you get to the top of this
elevated tea
between the second and the third you
play over the most gorgeous Revenge
don’t you yeah you know we all hate
absolutely hooks can we just tell the
stage of the match at this point so okay
yeah so I’ve just given you
now hadn’t yeah I’ve just given you a
part on the last and said yeah I’m still
like three up aren’t they three up five
to play
um we’re all hit rattlesnake hooks down
down 14.
um I was like yeah you’re gonna find
that I put like yeah there’s no way
that’s been found again and he was right
to be fair there was an unbelievable
amount of room out left
I I kind of got some
yeah I mean you made a great four and a
bit of clutter sort of crept in on the
short game by that point
um two down
yeah two down
great par three yes another part three
so this is we’ve been playing blind
short uphill Pathways this was a short
blind downhill par three that it’s 155
on the card but I mean you just hit yeah
it wedge is all it needs it’s so
downhill and you just can’t see anything
where you’re going yeah Ollie’s giving
it the
um oh those trees are out of bounds if
you aim towards those trees that’s okay
you went well left the flag kicks in and
it’s just so you know it’s such an
overused cliche in golf you know it’s
one of those courses you need to know
your way around it’s you know the same
could apply for every single golf course
on the planet but it definitely it
matters more when you can’t see the
green totally there’s so many times
where you’ve just got to play away from
the pin or play a wave in the golf hole
because
because of the turf it’s on and the
amount of you know you know kind of
Cotswold Stone underneath and it’s
really firm and it’s really fast so you
can actually just run the life out the
golf ball you won’t get any backspin
um and That’s a classic example just
flick wedge just go 15 yards left
everything will feed in but lovely
little punch bowl but that’s what you
want from a blind shot like you want to
punch bowl green so it gives you the
opportunity of getting a par at least
which is what it gives you it doesn’t
make the green silly if you can’t see
the green he tends to make it a nice
green yeah 16 is great hole but it’s
like basically playing down a ski slice
you won 60 as well so you’ve got it all
square so 16 another good golf hole Yeah
again just land forms all you can say
about pains which just land forms are
just insane
um and yeah it’s like playing down a ski
score when you get down to the green
isn’t it 17 really good goal pole
actually 17. yeah sneaky good golfer
sneaky good it’s
um you play across basically two public
roads and there’s a little there’s a
like Ollie goes and checks on this
little ladder thing and I was like mate
the group in front of Miles Ahead
there’s no need to worry about those
he’s like I’m looking for cars so you
check to see where the cars are driving
up and down the road and Ollie gives it
yeah there’s a local rule here that if
the ball rolls down the road we’re on
top of a mountain because it rolls down
the road uh and you both agree it rolls
down the road you can just take a drop
in the drop sir which I thought was
incredible it was absolutely absurd and
it was a it was a really good golf hole
but it’s almost it’s you know it struck
me a little bit of like the car news
d17s because it had little island yeah
between the roads you’ve got to hit this
island you can’t go you can’t hit
anything more than 180. no and you’ve
still got a full second shot like if you
hit more than 180 you are down the road
and definitely an OB so it’s like and
everything brings away from you you
don’t really want to hit even if you’ve
got a five eye on your hand you don’t
want to hit a little cutty nah Cutty
shot there yeah so
and then you close with a very nice
little path 3 18th just in front of it
so yeah I know you want to keep getting
yeah one up um after three down that was
that was nice and then closed it out
with a power absolutely stop 99 in under
in front of um it wasn’t quite a bang
crap it was it was absolutely dead but
it is in front of the clubhouse glorious
Clubhouse it is too yeah and you can
imagine on a nice
Summer’s evening when there’s you know
not covered that that can be packed out
and loads of people joking out in that
that balcony watching people come down
18 it’s uh so we said we keep this short
um kind of I hope people have enjoyed
that I think kind of quick quick rapid
fire you know you know what would you
kind of say to people going to Payne’s
work
definitely go
lose your expectations
don’t worry about your score and just
play match play do not play stroll play
and take a bottle of water as well
for 4800 I would say that’s uh it’s a
proper leg workout as well yeah it’s um
it’s a serious golf course it’s very
very good fun and um it definitely one
you should tick off your list I actually
came away from if I’m perfectly honest
going yeah yeah I love that I probably
wouldn’t go back
and The more I’ve sat on it and
reflected on it I actually want to go
back good at the grower that’s how I
felt I was because it is
I think gimmick is a harsh word it’s
really tricked up yeah it’s really
really tricked up I’d like to have
another cracker severity everywhere and
I think yeah exactly with a course has
got you after 48 Hours of thinking like
the fact we’re sat here again I’m so
annoyed I didn’t hit those shots that’s
a good thing rather than thinking I wish
I’d have hit those shots better yeah
we’re actually thinking I just wish I’d
have played different shots out there
and I think that’s variety yeah we were
coming off 30 degrees no water nearly
nearly you know having died out there
um but we had to make a decision didn’t
we between take the Drone
content’s King thing with blades one
um that’s what Bruce always wins
um but no it’s uh
I I want to go back I want to go back
quickly so I suppose that’s probably the
only the most Accolade I can give any
course really good stuff well a bit of a
new idea bit of a new segment maybe for
the for the Pod uh if you liked it get
in touch and uh yeah
we we kind of uh we might do a few more
of these things it’s nice to do a little
local field trip somewhere on our
doorstep we live in the middle of
England there’s so much good golf out
there to be had and uh yeah we just
thought we’d record a short pump for
today
without that
without further ado
adios
never get to say out here
or a new semi-series or a new sub series
of the cookie jar golf podcast I’ll just
call it a different flavor it just
basically it’s gonna be
the same thing as the cookie jar golf
podcast but it’s going to be little
micro pods the cookie crumbs some would
say I am Tom Mills and today I’m only
joined by Sam Williams greetings Thomas
hello Sam you’re right yeah good mate so
um just introducing this concept I guess
we
constantly talk about some of the golf
courses we play but feel like we’re
shoehorning it into pods so doing a few
little micro pods talking about some of
the courses we’ve played on our travels
I thought would be quite interesting
um and on Monday I managed to drag you
up to Payne’s work now Monday is a very
arbitrary term when you listen to this
podcast at any point in time in the
future so a few days ago we played
Payne’s work which I was convinced was
mention Hampton for like literally four
hours I was convinced we were going to
mention Hamilton are they even close to
each other they’re a gloucestershire
courses all very popular with the kind
of work Golf Course architecture Brigade
um but I’d seen so many pictures of
Payne’s week are super excited to go and
see it obviously you know we have a
massive fondness don’t we for cleave but
um I think also should bit of context
here Monday the 19th of July was a
cripplingly hot day in Britain so
the idea that we could sit in a car for
50 minutes with air conditioning was
um holiday I’ll show up for that
um so yeah I guess kind of maybe just
talk and talk a little about Payne’s
work and experiences going into that
with 17 pound 50 Green fee I think I’d
done a little bit more due diligence
than you what were you consider I didn’t
know where we were going yeah I think
you’ve done a little bit more than me
um well friend of the Pod Simon Haynes
um
world-renowned
nerd uh it’s a world-renowned nerd I’d
say
um if you want picked black and white
pictures of bunkers he’s your guy yeah
he’s um he’s a full-on golf nors like
the rest of us and he like Raves about
paineswick so it was on our bucket it
was on a hit list for a while wasn’t it
so we got a warm evening and went down
there um
I suppose we should learn a little bit
about the backgrounds of paineswick I
suppose I mean I’m not the most well
versed person about Payne’s work but I’m
not going to pretend to have done loads
of loads of research but I do know it
was
um really accredited to David Brown so
David famous from our musselburgh film
was pulled off a roof
um and won the Open Championship haven’t
been given a bath and put into a fresh
suit and I know he was also working as a
professional down at Cleve Hill so given
the the proximity of the two courses the
fact they kind of all occupy different
parts of the Cotswold escarpment
um yeah he’s kind of accredited with
with the design
I didn’t know an awful lot more about
that I knew that it was a relatively
short course
um driving down I think we had a little
look at the scorecard 4 800 yards past
67 to steal the line from from our
Cullen film one could be forgiven for
thinking 59 watches on the cards well I
can tell you it’s absolutely not 89
watch might be on the cards but not 59
watch it was a a blisteringly difficult
golf course what was the takeaway what
was your thoughts going into it like
because you know what coming away from
it what were the kind of there are some
huge similarities to Cleve and there are
some enormous differences to cleave
so
I mean that whole stretch of golf up
there is still so raw like it’s not in
any way shape or form USGA it’s it’s not
as raw as cleave it’s not maintained by
sheep it’s got proper green stuff and
it’s
it’s just still very raw and basic and
you go there and you think
you know you can imagine how golf was
um they’ve got the breathtaking views
around there I mean the views are
Sensational
um but you know if you build a course
now you you know I think someone would
say oh she put the clubhouse near the
top somewhere yeah but David Brown and
in all of his
his uh his knowledge starts the golf
course down at the bottom at the lowest
point you could possibly be so like for
six holes I mean getting up that hill is
it’s a great experience I mean it’s a
bit of a cardiac kill at the first I I
mean for me I kind of takeaways would be
really really small greens like tiny
really tiny greens I thought the flags
were huge when we were playing at them
and after a few I realized actually the
flag’s a normal size it was the greens
that were smaller
um just to add to that I mean the I
think that the signature you’d say is
the par 36
glorious golf ball incredible golfer
glorious golf hole it’s like 210 and we
played sort of downhill it’s really
quite a tough little par three
um
it was eight yards wide
all this green
in the world and like if you miss left
which I did and I only missed by about
did not exist but that’s not why you’re
there you know it’s not you’re not there
for for all that it’s just like it is
so much fun but the greens are super
smart I agree with you on that they are
literally tiny but I think there’s a
there’s a lot to be said for that I
think
um
you know we you know we’ll talk a little
bit about around I’m sure at some point
but halfway through we managed to we we
kind of picked up ollie on our travels
and said look you know it’s obviously a
local golfer you know do you mind if we
join you you’re saying there’s like
someone someone understands Ollie was a
golfer who would I mean his T-shirt
represented everything that was going on
about click about Payne’s work because
the back sort of the spine of his
T-shirt was just drenched in sweat it
was so hot and I think he was about to
call it a day and he was kind of sort of
mosing around and and uh Sam got
chatting to him and he thankfully joined
us and for the last six Souls maybe yeah
yeah um just a local golfer you know
tell us about
yeah his journey in golf he started
pretty recently and all around top guy
teacher in the area and um you know 30
pound a month Subs just incredible but
it’s amazing you know and playing with
him was pretty neat but
you kind of get I I thought the land
forms of the course were pretty pretty
special I thought all of that stuff is
really memorable when you play it I
don’t think
it’s quite enjoyable the fact that
you’ve got all these funky slopes around
the green you’ve got to come up with all
these different short shots around them
you know you’re not going to hit 18
Greens in regulation around there now
kind of the reason I bought audio was
because he told us very quickly that
actually now they’ve got a second green
keeper so I think a guy used to maintain
the course on his own which if you’ve
played Payne’s work and if you haven’t
you must go and play it
the the land to go and reach different
parts of the course with any kind of
equipment would be an undertaking in
itself let alone if you were the only
green keeper so I think it’s incredible
and the fact they’re small greens is
brilliant because that’s exactly why you
can get stupidly cheap green fees really
because there’s not the same cost that
goes into to looking after it the ground
pretty
springy yeah it was it was proper Turf
wasn’t it I mean it was proper
it’s interesting because when we covered
um cleave you know they talk about it
being linksy and you know to many
degrees Payne’s books the same it’s this
sort of
chalky Turf it’s on that Cotswold Stone
it looks you know it’s not it drains
amazingly you can imagine it doesn’t get
wet in the in the winter at all and
it’s just to get away with one green
keeper is absolutely nuts and they’re
like the the how how far they’ve
progressed the course with the second
green keeper and it was in good
condition like and that’s I think that’s
where there’s a lot to be said for you
know just having good land as a starting
point I would say if you go to Payne’s
Rick I mean I almost wouldn’t bother
with a scorecard because the number
that’s on the scorecard is just so
unrepresentative to the number that you
and your playing Partners will get well
the first hole is what
220 yards
we’re driving down I’m thinking okay
could it could be an iron it could be a
fair we would have all right we’re gonna
we’re gonna get home here like this is
this is a nice easy start you’re playing
straight up an embankment to a blind
green and that’s okay and then you get
to the top and it’s like oh my God
there’s all these Ravines and yeah below
the greens it’s like that’s awesome like
it’s really cool
um but you know it’s a legitimate Par
Four it’s just very short it’s not an
easy golf hole the green is small if you
go past the pin you’ve got one of those
awkward little Legends so let’s talk
about this so I’d say you know we’re not
we’re not super well versed in
gloucestershire golf but there seems in
the two courses that we’ve played in
gloucestershire they’ve got
I saw a unique little feature that you
kind of I’ve only ever seen there really
where
the greens are obviously they’re all
built on Hills because it’s all very
hairy down there you’ve got the Cotswold
and they seem to have dug out a small
section of the hill to flatten the green
and then put that Earth on the other
side of the green to make it larger and
flatter so you get a drop onto the green
then it flats and then a drop off the
green but yeah you get that quite a lot
and it’s a really unique feature I think
I’ve not seen it anywhere and then you
go and play around the Cotswolds and
there’s quite a bit of it so you’ve
heard lots of it I would say it’s
without doubt one of the biggest
challenging but it’s a Terrain to get
through because you’re basically playing
off a ledge onto the green below or
chipping up from below a very steep
ledge there’s no bunkers there at all is
there no not the the iso it shows how
much you miss a bunker because I think
we were driving back as I was there a
bunker I don’t know I don’t think there
was a bunker I just thought it was a
ball Striker because I haven’t been
bunker I missed though having buns like
it just definitely didn’t need it I
think Clearfield probably uh has a
couple of them you know is is no
apologies for comparing the two because
they are I suppose
competing for the same audience in a way
they’re not far away from each other
it’s it’s relatively cheap green fees
it’s purely rugged golf
Cleve Hill put in a few bunkers that I
think happened by committee over time I
very much doubt they were there and in
the early days
um and I don’t think Payne’s Works any
any less for it I think in fact I think
the course was harder for not having
them because in the places they would
have put them you know you can Splash
out onto the green and all that but this
had lots of runoffs and and you found
yourself in tightly in my own areas and
it was a little bit trickier for not
having them I think what about what were
your favorite holes
I mean I’m always gonna have a
I’m always gonna have a rose tinted view
on the back six because I absolutely
took you the shreds on the back six but
um I mean they’re part of the signature
hold the sixth
pretty pretty good golfer pretty
spectacular golf all down the hill and
you can see the you know it’s almost
sort of 360 views uh degree views of the
whole of gloucestershire so that hole is
pretty impressive
um but then there’s two like super
sneaky short par threes 115 yards yeah
completely blind and up both are up 30
yards five and ten yeah yeah yeah but
Cole’s five and ten they go up you know
30 yards up in the air you can’t see
what’s going and you’re hitting sort of
gap wedge into no idea where you’re
hitting it and they’re quite but they’re
seriously good fun golf holes aren’t
they actually like gold so it’s not a
penal because the greens are bold yeah
yeah so it all feeds back down all
you’ve got to do is get it in the
vicinity and it kind of you won’t be far
away so that’s quite cool just asking
you whether you can get the ball near
yeah the par 3s are pretty cool I think
then you know I think there are some
good par fours I mean we can’t not talk
about the second there
the hottest golf hole in the history of
the world I genuinely know like we got
we’ve played the first I’m Sweating
Bullets after getting up that hill I’ve
made a nice little four chipped up
two-part thought okay we’re in the round
here got the first hole against Tom
and he stand on the second here it’s
like I think it was about 320 yards I
want to say maybe 340. 340 yeah stroke
three okay looks tough because I’m
looking at a hogsback fairway here I
can’t see anything past the stake but
the stake looks like it’s 230 down there
so you’re thinking
Fairway word just get it in play guess I
just need to add a touch of descriptions
it’s a hogsback fairway with a with a
you know like a marker in the middle
it’s OB left yeah damn death left I mean
well I think it is off the course I will
be left and right is just more Revenge
it’s Ravines and caverns and 30 40 foot
as well yeah crazy Steve carry on yeah
so then you get down there you’ve got to
play into a green obviously with a you
can kind of see the top part of the pin
behind it there’s a little lollipop
behind to kind of give you a kind of a
bit of an aim point on where to go if
you can’t see the top of the pin
um you then get a kind of this view of
the Ravine that then pinches all the way
into the front of the green doesn’t it
goes right across the Fairway gets
stupidly crazy narrow down the left the
tree line which becomes a red Hazard
because it drops off into another Gorge
becomes visible and then when you get
down to the green you realize it’s about
10 Paces long and it’s behind the back
front to back front to back
it’s genuinely one of the hardest and
most terrifying golf holes I’ve ever
played it is solid I mean fun I I I’ve
smoked a firewood up there and I’ve just
got like I’ve probably probably the best
T-shirt here all day and I’ve got 99 in
but when you’re looking at nine iron
where there’s red left red long
caves right short is the narrowest
Fairway in the world yeah it was a
fairly intimidating approach shot David
Brown was a sadist we’ve got to talk
about the match unfortunately
um but we can go through some more holes
first I think if he was playing
payneswick if I were to give anyone some
advice about Payne’s Wick
um
do not go there thinking you are any way
capable of bullying this golf course
hit the ball where you can see and I
think so often we were like okay well
it’s 260 down there so I can just knob a
drive down there but in reality you
could do six iron wedges and just didn’t
need anything more that I don’t think
because there’s two puff eyes that play
alongside I mean it’s a shared Fairway
but it’s really the same Fairway
you know you almost played down the
throat to the group in front of you as
they’re going back up nine
um those are the only long holes on the
course I would say neither are really
legitimate we played off the backs I
don’t think eight or nine is really
reachable in two it’s if it’s reachable
it’s not the play and the par fours are
all definitely reachable for most
golfers down the hill and then nine
comes back up but like you say the same
Fairway so they made us look stupid
didn’t it because you know there was a
couple of holes once you got through you
know one and then the mind-bendingly
difficult second you play two really
good par fours back to back you play you
know the third you’ve got kind of like
this huge Quarry Works off to the right
of you you play downhill the Green’s
just winking at you from the T Isn’t it
nice elevated teeth or something 280.
it’s like so I don’t know why as golfers
you have that little buzzer in your head
that goes I’ve got to go for it it’s in
range I cannot possibly lay up so we all
try and lump drivers down there the same
repeats itself on the 4 fourth which is
like 290 uphill so clearly not the play
both of those holes by the way so they
both are 280 290 both have got like you
say greens are just basically I like
placemats giving you the eye and going
like come on then and the left you’re
playing you’re playing towards this
green that if you go left of it kicks to
OB so it’s dead like and the whole
Fairway runs to OB and exactly the same
thing happens on the fourth in Reverse
you just go up to the right and you’re
playing towards that’s red staked but
you’re playing up towards red steaks and
you’ve got to hit basically the eye of a
needle or from 290 and we all I don’t
know why
yeah fully suckered Us in and you know
if the hole was longer we probably
wouldn’t have played those shots and I
think that’s why there’s a lot to be
said for it and it genuinely made us
look like morons for a few holes because
I think in the first 14 holes we were
pretty much you know we’re reloading on
about five holes I’d kind of arrogantly
got out the car and said probably gonna
need a couple of golf balls grab a fist
with a team eggs will be all good
and yeah I like playing it again I would
show an infinite amount more respect to
par around there I think
yeah I mean I’m going to put it out
there and say we both played it with too
much arrogance yeah I think like the
first you you would be very well we’ve
talked about this first 220 you would be
very well served to hit nayton up the
hill and just chip on but Ollie came out
with the statement didn’t he on his way
back he was like when it gets summery
and really hot and the ground gets burnt
out what did he what did he say
something or boys can’t get to the top
of the hill to the hit the ball up the
hill and he doesn’t greet to the top
which rolls back to their feet because
the Hill’s like about 140 160 yards to
ascend I think before you get anything
like being on level ground now I know
old boys that aren’t going to advance a
tee shot more than 140 yards uphill like
I can think of a handful of members at
Blackwell that I don’t think would get
off the First Tee in that instance yeah
if it was burnt out it’s insane
um speaking of teas you mentioned a
festival of teas probably the only
course in the world which is it’s kind
of like the Kryptonite to the Western
Birch yeah I mean RT pegs as our
customers and people who are proudly
Rocking Around The Fairways will attest
to they literally do not break I mean
the one I picked up the other week on
the fairways was a Blackwell was beaten
within an inch of its life but the shank
of the tea just clearly would not snap
these things were going through them
like math I didn’t even hit a shot just
put it in the ground it’s like gone I
don’t know whether that’s some sort of
like you know I’m assuming
sort of you know was thinking well ahead
of his years but
um yeah it was nuts absolutely nuts but
I think you know we talked a bit about
front nine there I think the be remiss
not to talk about
um you know some of that stuff as well
on the closing stretch which is just
really good fun isn’t it yeah I think
we’ve we need to address the elephants
in the room which was
um we picked up Ollie
um just before the 13th lovely lad 14th
lovely lad yeah and um he said well the
next hole’s a par three and when to walk
down to the to them the yellow T’s and
Sam goes no no no I’m not doing that
wing and perfect
I could see him walking down the hill
and I just went where’s the white solid
and he’s like oh yeah we’ve got this at
the back and I was like yeah so the wife
was at 250 but you we’ve been speaking
about this rather impressive elevation
uphill and obviously at some point
you’ve got to go downhill and that was
it was this hole so there’s 250 but it
was
so downhill it’s unbelievable so I take
um I take a four iron and it’s still
going over the green and it was a little
bit left but it’s still going over the
green by the time it went out our bounds
so Sam Hits a six iron to basically the
green yeah and it just woke it up just
at 250 yards six times as as banter but
um yeah I was I was so proud of myself
and I thought yeah great we’ve you know
he was a great guy I thought brilliant
we’ve got someone new we’ve met here
we’re going to play have six or seven
good golf holes with him and this guy
now immediately thinks I’m a ball
Striker I thought you know we are right
in the pound seats yeah Gary Cottrell
and then yeah as we kind of crept in
other neck I think it was the next hole
flush two irons into like you know about
eight feet just
sensibly five iron five iron
yeah and then you go on to is it the
14th then where you stand up again on
the elevated tee because it kind of
plays very similar to a traditional
links doesn’t it very much out and back
you know out and back again back to the
fact that you know in those days you
know it really was play out as long as
you want to go and then turn for home
when you’re ready rather than needing to
have different loops and iron and
you know you get to the top of this
elevated tea
between the second and the third you
play over the most gorgeous Revenge
don’t you yeah you know we all hate
absolutely hooks can we just tell the
stage of the match at this point so okay
yeah so I’ve just given you
now hadn’t yeah I’ve just given you a
part on the last and said yeah I’m still
like three up aren’t they three up five
to play
um we’re all hit rattlesnake hooks down
down 14.
um I was like yeah you’re gonna find
that I put like yeah there’s no way
that’s been found again and he was right
to be fair there was an unbelievable
amount of room out left
I I kind of got some
yeah I mean you made a great four and a
bit of clutter sort of crept in on the
short game by that point
um two down
yeah two down
great par three yes another part three
so this is we’ve been playing blind
short uphill Pathways this was a short
blind downhill par three that it’s 155
on the card but I mean you just hit yeah
it wedge is all it needs it’s so
downhill and you just can’t see anything
where you’re going yeah Ollie’s giving
it the
um oh those trees are out of bounds if
you aim towards those trees that’s okay
you went well left the flag kicks in and
it’s just so you know it’s such an
overused cliche in golf you know it’s
one of those courses you need to know
your way around it’s you know the same
could apply for every single golf course
on the planet but it definitely it
matters more when you can’t see the
green totally there’s so many times
where you’ve just got to play away from
the pin or play a wave in the golf hole
because
because of the turf it’s on and the
amount of you know you know kind of
Cotswold Stone underneath and it’s
really firm and it’s really fast so you
can actually just run the life out the
golf ball you won’t get any backspin
um and That’s a classic example just
flick wedge just go 15 yards left
everything will feed in but lovely
little punch bowl but that’s what you
want from a blind shot like you want to
punch bowl green so it gives you the
opportunity of getting a par at least
which is what it gives you it doesn’t
make the green silly if you can’t see
the green he tends to make it a nice
green yeah 16 is great hole but it’s
like basically playing down a ski slice
you won 60 as well so you’ve got it all
square so 16 another good golf hole Yeah
again just land forms all you can say
about pains which just land forms are
just insane
um and yeah it’s like playing down a ski
score when you get down to the green
isn’t it 17 really good goal pole
actually 17. yeah sneaky good golfer
sneaky good it’s
um you play across basically two public
roads and there’s a little there’s a
like Ollie goes and checks on this
little ladder thing and I was like mate
the group in front of Miles Ahead
there’s no need to worry about those
he’s like I’m looking for cars so you
check to see where the cars are driving
up and down the road and Ollie gives it
yeah there’s a local rule here that if
the ball rolls down the road we’re on
top of a mountain because it rolls down
the road uh and you both agree it rolls
down the road you can just take a drop
in the drop sir which I thought was
incredible it was absolutely absurd and
it was a it was a really good golf hole
but it’s almost it’s you know it struck
me a little bit of like the car news
d17s because it had little island yeah
between the roads you’ve got to hit this
island you can’t go you can’t hit
anything more than 180. no and you’ve
still got a full second shot like if you
hit more than 180 you are down the road
and definitely an OB so it’s like and
everything brings away from you you
don’t really want to hit even if you’ve
got a five eye on your hand you don’t
want to hit a little cutty nah Cutty
shot there yeah so
and then you close with a very nice
little path 3 18th just in front of it
so yeah I know you want to keep getting
yeah one up um after three down that was
that was nice and then closed it out
with a power absolutely stop 99 in under
in front of um it wasn’t quite a bang
crap it was it was absolutely dead but
it is in front of the clubhouse glorious
Clubhouse it is too yeah and you can
imagine on a nice
Summer’s evening when there’s you know
not covered that that can be packed out
and loads of people joking out in that
that balcony watching people come down
18 it’s uh so we said we keep this short
um kind of I hope people have enjoyed
that I think kind of quick quick rapid
fire you know you know what would you
kind of say to people going to Payne’s
work
definitely go
lose your expectations
don’t worry about your score and just
play match play do not play stroll play
and take a bottle of water as well
for 4800 I would say that’s uh it’s a
proper leg workout as well yeah it’s um
it’s a serious golf course it’s very
very good fun and um it definitely one
you should tick off your list I actually
came away from if I’m perfectly honest
going yeah yeah I love that I probably
wouldn’t go back
and The more I’ve sat on it and
reflected on it I actually want to go
back good at the grower that’s how I
felt I was because it is
I think gimmick is a harsh word it’s
really tricked up yeah it’s really
really tricked up I’d like to have
another cracker severity everywhere and
I think yeah exactly with a course has
got you after 48 Hours of thinking like
the fact we’re sat here again I’m so
annoyed I didn’t hit those shots that’s
a good thing rather than thinking I wish
I’d have hit those shots better yeah
we’re actually thinking I just wish I’d
have played different shots out there
and I think that’s variety yeah we were
coming off 30 degrees no water nearly
nearly you know having died out there
um but we had to make a decision didn’t
we between take the Drone
content’s King thing with blades one
um that’s what Bruce always wins
um but no it’s uh
I I want to go back I want to go back
quickly so I suppose that’s probably the
only the most Accolade I can give any
course really good stuff well a bit of a
new idea bit of a new segment maybe for
the for the Pod uh if you liked it get
in touch and uh yeah
we we kind of uh we might do a few more
of these things it’s nice to do a little
local field trip somewhere on our
doorstep we live in the middle of
England there’s so much good golf out
there to be had and uh yeah we just
thought we’d record a short pump for
today
without that
without further ado
adios
never get to say out here