hello and welcome back to the cookie jar
golf podcast crumbs episode pilot Mark
II course Diaries course Diaries Thomas
all right the cookie crumbs is something
you’ve been trying to push for a long
time it’s course Diaries yeah the crumbs
have to be something different I suppose
but I am Tom Mills for those of you
don’t know and I am joined by Sam
Williams great thanks how are we yeah
good mate can’t complain another course
diary under the belt
good fun wasn’t it so we we actually
went and played Worcester Golf and
Country Club AKA bountain Park uh which
is
about I’d say about 25 minutes from
where we live
um yeah kind of one of those on your
doorstep that you don’t play
um you don’t go and see really because
you know when you do get in the car and
place somewhere other than your home
track it’s usually a lot much further
away
um it was good fun we played I think
Payne’s week on Monday and then we’d
Worcester on the Wednesday so it was
kind of right in that spell of Heat Wave
hot weather
um but yeah it was cool wasn’t it so
short short socks yeah show us on water
I mean it was perfectly nice evening
wasn’t it I think to kick it off we we
were looking for something to go and do
on the Wednesday evening and just
thought well what about checking out
Boughton Park old school McKenzie
classic you know kind of as I mentioned
not somewhere you know I’ve not played
there probably since since I was 10 and
whatever what happened with the junior
competition what happened when you were
10. yeah well it’s obviously won a
junior junior event
um
yeah it’s like 30 pound Twilight
Greenville I thought well it’s got two
chances hasn’t it and it was
as we had a little chat on the way down
the car I’m almost certain it was my
first Mackenzie
yeah I mean I’ve read his books I kind
of
know of the stuff he’s done and have I
ever played a McKenzie I’d have wrapped
my brains
what no I don’t think so no and there’s
a few I mean there’s a couple around the
Midlands particularly places like Warsaw
would be another example
um obviously there’s a lot of his
courses that he did in the early part of
his career
um but the stuff around Worcester is
pretty interesting you know in terms of
a potted history
um
David Thomas kind of big fan of the
pardon
um a friend of ours he listens to the
Pod yeah whether he’s a big fan yeah
okay the rather nice big for him but
actually very kindly
um you know he’s one of the games very
passionate Souls who you know just
spends a lot of time trying to
understand the history doesn’t he kind
of sent through a very brief potted
history which um which I think is worth
worth covering so Worcester Golf and
Country used to have a nine holder on uh
toledime which no longer exists I’ve
also played that as a junior did you win
actually but um but yeah late late 1920s
moved about Park and Mackenzie built the
built the original routing now you know
for those that haven’t played it it’s a
course that’s situated very very close
to the to the city center of Worcester
which is really nice isn’t it and it
feels like a little piece of an oasis I
would say
um
and yeah like you you drive through the
you drive through the gates and down
this kind of
long road that takes you to the the kind
of manor house the building the
clubhouse in the center and you’ve got
the the holes kind of Branch out around
it don’t they which I think is pretty
unique yeah that Drive-In is
to fairly intimidating drive because
you’ve got holes one and two either side
of you so you can either give your wits
about you to make sure you’re not being
peppered by a golf ball yeah I noticed
that the knowledgeable members had some
good education yeah
just no no thought to anybody involved
we just cracked on straight through but
we weren’t to know I suppose but it’s um
what were you going in expecting
Augusta right
I you know I don’t know you know you
Mackenzie Infamous for Augustus Cyprus I
mean it’s weird when you see some of
another you know friend of the Pod Joe
McDonald you see when Masters comes
around and you see how August has
changed since Simpson laid out it’s like
nothing almost you know
the bunkers are different shapes they’re
in different places they’re they’ve
changed a lot of the green complexes and
things like that so you know what
remains of Mackenzie what you see on TV
isn’t necessarily you know what he
designed and I suppose I was hoping a
little bit of Augusta there you know a
little bit of Cyprus
um but I was going in their fairly open
mind just to see you know what it was
about and
I think the big takeaway from for me was
certainly on the sort of I think we’re
gonna we’ll get into it shortly the
course kind of changes feel
about the the way through halfway
through kind of changes feel about which
we’ll talk about but the front sort of
six
um
the green complexes and the Contours
around the greens are fabulous yeah yeah
they’re they’re stretched to say it’s
Augusta but they’re the shades of it
with kind of really nice high flash face
bunkers really cool mounding around the
greens particularly those kind of first
six or seven holes and that that kind of
stretch of about 15 in
yeah really nice feature like the green
side’s so amazing aren’t they yeah I
mean really cool we had a chatter I I’m
not well versed enough to be able to
just pull this knowledge from the top of
my head but
it’s a fairly flat terrain the whole
thing’s flat really
um there’s you know after about seven or
eight you go down into it into a
separate part of the property but
um the first six seven holes are fairly
flat but have all got undulating
contoured greens and I wondered I’d talk
to you on the way around whether you
know how man meant they were and how
they were whether they’d pick those
sites because there was a bit of natural
mind in there but you just don’t see
mounding like that made anymore you know
to replace subtle isn’t it yeah you know
they give you angles into the green and
there are correct angles into the green
and there are incorrect angles into the
green
um which have kind of been forced
because of the tree growth I’d probably
you know I’d guess there’s been a lot of
tree growth back in McKenzie’s day there
wasn’t a huge amount of trees there
we’ve got some black and white images
we’ll post them up on on the on the grid
and stuff on Insta and Twitter but you
you can it looks amazing when you look
at the black and white photos when
there’s literally no tree cover there
and I think that’s the big takeaway
Worcester is we’ve we’ve talked a lot
about this on the podcast we’ve had
people like Frank ponds Ed Cartwright
Mike Clayton all talking about entropy
so you come away from the lynx Golf and
it’s like well
yeah
these courses were not built with huge
amounts of tree-lined Fairways they were
generally quite open pieces of land and
over time as tree growth comes in you do
lose the playing width and angles and
all the kind of decisions you have to
make so you know the the sad part I
would say with Worcester is that you
really just have to step up and execute
off the tee like you’ve just got to keep
threading it off the tee you don’t need
to be bombing drives 300 but you’ve got
to be hit in the middle of the fairways
otherwise you’re coming out sideways
whereas actually when you get to the
greens certainly those kind of original
Green sites that are there don’t really
they don’t need to be defended by trees
no because the mouths are so narrow to
the greens the mounding around them is
is such and the size of the greens as
such the actually if you’re coming at it
from side on you wouldn’t be able to
hold it
as well I mean it’s it’s Parkland golf
but it’s we were playing in a heatwave
we were playing a heat wave but it was
it was proper Turf it wasn’t like you
know it didn’t matter if you were coming
in from the wrong angle because you
could just get it to Rouse back it
wasn’t playing like that yeah you are
right we played it in a heatwave but
um but I just thought that part was sad
so like you play you play one I mean
one’s a really nice opening hole Yeah
fairly generous up the right and you’ve
got lovely green to play into two
fabulous kind of shortish Par Four with
kind of that kind of Lone Tree that’s it
yeah beautiful green site again you know
bunkers kind of dropped forward 50 yards
in front of you really makes you think
and you’re thinking this is that this is
really good like some really good holes
but then you start to get into it a
little bit further out and three is a
long path the third is a good example
because it’s a long par five which is so
narrow now
um the eye fortuitously hit for me a
fairly large drive up the left we’re on
the T we were saying you don’t really
want to be that left because it looks
like there’s sort of OB up there but I
threaded it down the left pulled it a
little bit to be fair
now I could go over the trees towards
this green so I had about five wood in
but it was like a Sunday best five one
but I was looking over so beyond the
trees and there was a bunker that’s
about
I don’t know 20 yards shorts or
protecting from what I was trying to do
but you couldn’t really see that bunker
because it was covered in trees so I had
to go over the trees and over this sort
of invisible bunker
um and you kind of think you could get
rid of all those because that the the
hard bit about this is the fact they’ve
put a bunker that’s kind of 20 yards
short because you want to run it in yeah
it’s not and the green side’s kind of at
Angles too you play to a green that’s
then almost tucked round at right angles
the whole kind of designs you played is
another the second shot sort of straight
down the Fairway and you just kind of
chip in sideways and it’s like an easy
par five and if you missed it kind of
short-sighted or you’re on the side of
the green behind the bunker in it you
really are going to be in trouble going
up and down I think that’s the that was
the beauty of the whole but instead you
just got an awful lot of tree growth up
the right and then the next is kind of
another so they play two back-to-back
par fives again a fabulous green side on
four but there’s just so much tree cover
though it’s not a case of thinking about
where you’re coming in from it’s just
like please God keep this thing on the
short stuff
um and which you know
it kind of forces you to play more
strategic golf you know that’s why I
think it’s you know good players play
Parkland course as well because they can
put the ball where they want to put the
ball first of all but you’ve got to
think like you can’t you know there’s
certain holes will be like I can’t go
down the right here because if I go down
the right here I’m just there’s no shots
of the green so I can probably go three
wood down the left it’s going to be a
longer shot in but that makes more sense
and for average golfers like myself it’s
just I think heavily tree-lined courses
are just too hard but it keeps it hard
so funnily enough Mountain Park’s got
the I think the highest slope rating in
the county
um it it is a difficult course for
exactly the reason that you know you’ve
got to keep it straight off the tee
maybe with the equipment yeah I’ll give
it here if you took a lot that tree
cover away it would be an easier course
to play for the majority of golfers but
it would be more nuanced wouldn’t it
yeah yeah perhaps but but then the
course kind of you get through we talked
you know three four backs about par
fives
um you get through kind of seven they’re
all great golf holes and you get to
eight which is the first sort of
indication that things are about to
change because now you play over a lake
that’s just kind of new land isn’t it
which is a nice part three but it just
feels different to the ones that came
before it
um 155 nice par three you get past eight
and then suddenly you’re in like a
different part of yeah the world and
it’s a very very different feel to the
golf course from there through to 15. it
feels like you’ve lost like some of that
Mackenzie charm so even though you’re
playing and it feels a little
claustrophobic with the trees there’s
lots of charm there and those first sort
of I’d say even the eighth I mean that
pathway over the water that was an
original you know it’s a really good
golf hole you know I’ve noticed I’ve
started exploring some stuff with
different sand types whiter sand they’d
obviously redone the bunker on the front
left and that looked really good
um
but yeah then you go 9 10.
you know 11 you know they start to just
feel like it’s a slightly different
stretches
I I only think about it now actually in
retrospect probably should have done
some due diligence
nine ten
elevated tee shots yeah 12 no 13
elevated T Shot 14 elevated tee shot
like it’s almost like they’ve it’s like
the new age sort of thoughts he’s like
let’s go up there and hit down onto that
I think they’ve changed the T locations
what we do know for certain is that um
there was a massive Clubhouse fire in 48
so I think a lot of Records kind of pre
that days and obviously Clubhouse fires
were not uncommon in those days
um so there’s a little bit of kind of
conjecture around some of this stuff
um
but the the big thing is this kind of 30
years ago balls in gardens disputes so
because it’s kind of in quite a large
residential area you’ve obviously got
proximity to houses that’s obviously
caused the golf club issues which I
think has four some of those routing
decisions you know again that’s a that’s
a little bit of a shame but I wouldn’t
say they’re Dreadful golf balls they
just feel differently where you just
this feels different to what I’ve what
I’ve played but there is still some
really good stuff like you play
um I want to say it’s 13 up the hill the
short Par Four and you get up there and
there’s like a lovely three-tiered green
yeah you know kind of two little trees
either side it just feels it’s you know
there’s lots of character there
um I really enjoyed it and you know what
a special shout out everyone that we saw
there
um said to us they’d recently made some
changes with they had green keeper and
he’s just working wonders and we can
kind of attest to that like I actually
thought the greens were really good
right yeah great greens was really good
quick
um
I really enjoyed it I would say at 30
pound Twilight to play some old school
classic Mackenzie like that is that’s a
good deal and it’s a bit of an education
because it’s it’s not somewhere you’d go
and you know you wouldn’t say
hey let’s drive two hours to go and
visit Mountain Park but you’d absolutely
cover it off as you was traveling
through the Midlands just to go and see
somewhere a little bit different
yeah and Twilight’s a relative term the
Twilight was after 2 30. I mean for me
that’s afternoon you know what I mean
like that that’s not oh God you’re not
going to fit around him which Twilight
sometimes is you know after 2 30 for 30
quid I thought it was a you know good a
good deal to be had there and
I think you know as we as we play more
architect golf courses and these Golden
Age Wonders that we’re trying to tackle
it it’s interesting to go to see some of
these old designs and see how they’ve
changed and how they play now and I
definitely felt like
that I could feel you know
some of the old goals and architect or
Golden Age architecture principles there
yeah uh
but you could tell they were
they they’d let it go
entropy’s ultimately killed it because
there’s not much length and they can do
certainly on those holes you know we’re
kind of talking earlier about the
Addington before we started recording
and
That’s a classic example we played that
last year and you’re like yeah there’s a
lot of trees this is claustrophobic and
we haven’t been down since they’ve done
the tree clearing work there but what
you can see from the pictures is it it’s
going to enormously improve playability
and it just really opens up some of
these fabulous golf holes and I
genuinely think those are there at
Worcester
um it would be remiss on this pod not to
talk about the match so just kind of
linking back to course Diaries
1.0
um
painswick I lost from about three up
with about five to play that was pretty
painful I started at Worcester on an
absolute Burly Rampage I feel I think I
I know birdie throughout the first five
I could have buried all five of the
first holes I was on absolute fire at
one point I thought this is yeah we’ve
got 59 watch on here I think I was level
par through five and about three down
which is yeah not an ideal
um I was putting on a ball striking
clinic for you yeah it was it was it was
good you you were you’re on fire I can’t
hold another good boy
rolled a bird in on a I remember that
that that I didn’t felt like a really
and then you lost your ball down nine
down the left you didn’t deserve to lose
it to effects I hit an absolute
rattlesnake hook again down down nine
somehow made a four
we both made birdies on 11 on 10 rather
11 halved in threes
12 were going up there I think I’ve
snuck that one so I’m feeling like I’m
like four or five up at this point and
then you’ve got an absolute Rampage I’ve
had the I’ve missed a short birdie putt
on fought on
where are we now 15. I think we need to
discuss 15. so 15. 14 14. 14 you play
we’ve talked there’s a lot of elevated
teas on the back line
um sunken and obviously
seven point you’ve got to go uphill this
the 14th T is quite far below and you
you play up to a fairway because well
well above you we knew there’s a group
in front we happened to to know one of
the guys in the group in front has
happened stance would have it and um we
we watched them go over the hill we
don’t know if there’s a bell
um we just wait for a bit and see sun
setting we’ve got why is there expecting
us back about three hours ago so we
thought oh well we’re hit you know it’s
only it’s the hole’s 350 but
um I think for one and one of the only
times in our life we both absolutely
smoke these drives couldn’t have got
another inch out of those drivers you
must have you must have nearly killed
the blokes on the green yeah because
there was a bell and it turns out we
were about 20 30 yards past that Bell
um but they were all good with it very
kind and uh yeah that was bad there was
only one Birdie on that hole though
wasn’t there one birdie and that’s where
the comeback began I seem to remember I
then three jabbed the following you made
a good tidy four or something on 16 I
got short-sighted on 17. and then yeah
like we bled out to a gentleman’s half
on 18 but
um
yeah I mean there was some good golf out
there that improves the enjoyment like
there’s no getting away from it like I I
actually hit the pretty good tram
Worcester and
um I always think that improves things
yeah I’m trying really hard to try and
detach my goal from my opinions of golf
courses because my golf is so that
anyone who says they can do that and is
lying to themselves no no you can still
appreciate stuff though can’t you still
appreciate the golf courses and I was
getting my ass handed to me on that
front six and those that front six holes
it really they are truly remarkable
flat
set of golf holes like that sounds
ridiculous but for for something that’s
so
ostensibly flattened and inspiring
they’re six seven really really good
golf holes and great greens and
um Blackwell we often talk you know the
protection of the golf course is the
greens they’re small on these course
Diaries you’ve been to paineswick
um and they’re probably half the size
they’re tiny greens and with the
Worcester you can see that
um certainly in that front six seven
they weren’t designed to be any bigger
because of the mounding you know they
set in these sort of mounded areas so
they were always that size not like
they’ve shrunk yeah
um they’re just tiny but you want that
from from a reachable par five you want
to show a small green because it’s
asking you can you hit a small green
from 250 or
um I just thought it was brilliant I was
really really enjoyable experience to go
and see a Mackenzie I did I just think
there is more that could be done there
that would just Elevate that course
with the removal some of the trees I
think it I can’t kind of stress that
enough I just think
the enjoyment would be Amplified if you
weren’t sweating over a six iron off the
tee thinking I’ve got to hit an absolute
laser here to either have a shot and a
view at the green or to not put it in
the yeah in the cat in the cabinet
earlier on ironically getting Treeline
golf courses only benefits good players
like it doesn’t grow the game because it
makes it harder for hackers to play golf
it slows it down doesn’t it flavor golf
holes
feels like an apt way to close this 20
minute I think the seconds are fabulous
golfer I really thought second was a
fabulous golfer
um I was gonna say I was gonna say
you’re gonna say too yeah three three is
a good goal it needs it does need tree
removable three is a really good golf
hole
um
they just
I mean two is that is the standout one
for me I thought with that loan
tree you could be you could be genuinely
could be in Augusta it’s a fabulous
looking golf hole Yeah I I would say
playing those first
probably the first eight
they’re they’re all really good golf
holes you could almost from there slip
across and play
9 10 11. like 12. and then play 15 in I
almost think that’s the ideal stretch of
holes I’d say 16 was a really solid golf
hole as well 16 16 is probably the one
for me
bones of it are really good yeah that
was just like we both had to chip out
sideways which you know it was just I
think I would think I think we paced
that Fairway as something like 14 yards
wide from from tree cover to tree cover
yeah and you need to I mean you didn’t
probably didn’t need driver but there’s
a there’s another one kind of just in on
the further up because it had to be on
the left side of the force like 220 you
need to carry so like you do need to hit
a decent club and you’ve got to slot it
within like a 15-yard phase it’s 400
yards you’ve got it the left side of the
Fairway we know that we know the Fairway
is 14 yards in width so the question is
can you hit 250 to seven yards worth of
Fairway there’s not many players in the
game that can do that within a great
green but it is it’s a fantastic golf
hole Yeah and a good golfer well we’re
gonna put some pictures up I’ll I’ll dig
out some of the Black and Whites as well
um but yeah been interesting doing that
I don’t know where we’ll end up next but
uh
I got my size to come I know where we’re
going I got my sights there okay are you
gonna give anything away
it’s in the Midlands
Bell surprise I’ll keep it a secret
we’ll keep our sleeve keep your eyes and
ears peeled and until next time